Bisimoto H22 header Dyno'd

[justin@bisimoto]

Got something some of you here may like:wink:

Took this from another thread that a customer posted up.

Here is my dyno graph and experience with the BISIMOTO H-series header and with Bisi as a tuner:

Because of some stuff that I had to take care of last minute, Bisi started much later than he would have liked to. So due to the time constraints, we had to stop early.

BUT even still, look at what Bisi was able to extract from the motor! This particular motor is internally 100% BONE STOCK, and look at the numbers! The BISIMOTO header, Bisimoto-spec Kinsler ITBs, and Vibrant custom exhaust system combination yielded AWESOME results.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2791/4176519923_a510da0f53_o.jpg

BISIMOTO Engineering FTW

31 whp and 21 ft lbs of torque gained!

Bisi tuned a 100% BONE STOCK internally F20B to 211 whp. That is ridiculous.

The purple graph is of the same exact motor with an RMF header and TWM 52mm ITBs. The Bisimoto header and Bisimoto-spec Kinsler ITB combo absolutely MURDERS the previous combination of RMF and TWM. Both setups were tuned on AEM EMS.

The horsepower gains are nice and smooth up until about 6200 and then they just GROW. The torque gains are wonderful all the way from 2000rpm up. And around 20 ft lbs are gained at 3400 rpm or so. Awesome, absolutely awesome gains.

Bisimoto = awesomeness

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2581/4176260035_7467822dbf.jpg

:bang:

[accordracing96]

Hum....where do you find such product? :D

[justin@bisimoto]

:wave: me pick me haha


I can help you in getting one of these for your car. Send me a Pm or give me a call at 888-922-6686 ext.3

[nusdogg]

What's the retail for one of those..?? Around $800.00 or so?

[GhostAccord]

What's the retail for one of those..?? Around $800.00 or so?

$900-$1300 for the header and $2800 for the Kinsler ITB setup + dyno tuning. Not a bad price for 31 whp on a stock internal F20B. :tu:



Did Bisi take a minute to cleanup/check the RMF and TWM tune before he put his stuff on to do the comparison dyno?

[mr wonderfull]

$900-$1300 for the header and $2800 for the Kinsler ITB setup + dyno tuning. Not a bad price for 31 whp on a stock internal F20B. :tu:



Did Bisi take a minute to cleanup/check the RMF and TWM tune before he put his stuff on to do the comparison dyno?


looks like it needs tuning... also was revved out another 500 rpms.... we DO know what that means right??? setup is reallly pretty...

[GhostAccord]

I read that Bisi did indeed tune the previous setup as well. They are ripping into this header sales thread pretty good on H-T. As usual.

I find it funny that no one has questioned the addition of the XXmm (pos 60mm) Bisi spec kinsler ITB's with a 2 stage injection system. Vs the dyno using the older 52mm single injection TWM ITB setup. Do you think there could be more power found in the extra mm per throttle and the extra injectors? Yes I'm sure the headers perform, but this isn't an equal comparison.

[mr wonderfull]

The point is that theres no point on pointing (LOL) it out to him.... That dyno is in by no means even comparable... But as soon as someone doesnt swallow his nuts, everyones a hater according to his fanbois... LOL...

Every pimply 16 year old kid that has even heard of the insight automatically assumes that everything he says is gospel and NO ONE else on the face of the planet might know what they are talking about well enough to have reasonable doubt... Take the wagovan thread(s) for instance.... Jesus fuck. Now the headers are falling apart, its NOT being adressed well, and people are still gargling his balls just because they are sheep... Thats not even touching the cam issue thing some are having.... He is not a cam MFG.... so he cant warrantee them... gay, but out of his hands...


Anyways
Those power curves look like shit. Am I the only one that sees it? holy fucking loller coaster.... I mean shit, you even said it dude... They arent even comparable, and there is ALOT of info selecetively omited... Par for the course with alot of his retail smokescreen.

I am a fan of the insight and his F effort for sure... as for the rest of it... INCLUDING the fucking sales clowns he has that run around attempting to spew what they consider "tech" gag-choke-puke.

Ill pass.

Its made me seriously re think if ID ever by anything from him. Ity might not matter to all the clowns that throw the "hater" fucking kiddie monicker around... But even 1 person thinking that way SHOULD matter to him.

Hes a smart and really nice guy, but it is what it is. Biased, and stacked testing (once again par for the course) to sell shit. Rememebr, at the end of the day he is a businessman, and Businessmen are in it to make fucking money. Period.

[1993sir]

i personally think that the exhaust and after market ecu are the only things gaining power eh.
a bone stock H22a with absolutely no mods at all will do 165 to 170 whp. and thats not the euro r spec just the basic early, pre obd2 h22a.
euro r spec do 185 to 190 whp bone stock standard.
a simple freeing up of the exhaust with new larger diameter headers and 2.5 inch mandrel bent pipe and good quality free flowing numbers and feeing up the inlet with a simple k&n panel filter will see very close to that same 211whp.
i'm not a hater of this guy bisi or what ever his name is, just sceptical.
this same dyno plot is also in another thread and pics show this motor also has adjustable cam gears, so i would expect far more than 211 hp.
and nearly USD$4000 for a 45 hp gain!? you'd be mad i'm afraid

[GhostAccord]

Rememebr, at the end of the day he is a businessman, and Businessmen are in it to make fucking money. Period.

I hear that!

[mr wonderfull]

nearly USD$4000 for a 45 hp gain!? you'd be mad i'm afraid

I completely agree.

For 4 grand You (If you were halfway knowlegable/resourcefull) could build a low $ shitbox (Complete car) that makes about 200 WHP more than that, and goes tens... It would look like shit, but after the idot that spent that money got WALKED on by you in this 4 thousand dollar pile of shit, as he was reminding you drive a piece of shit, you could remind him Your piece of shit is 2-3 seconds quicker and traps 20 miles an hour faster than his does for the price of his header and gay ass ITB setup alone....

[Tomh]

^ That is kind of what I was thinking. For $4000, one could build a pretty damned stout engine.

[1993sir]

well apparently the owner of this car has plans for big numbers so i can see the point of the itbs and the stonking great headers, but to only see 211hp for that 4k outlay is pretty shit, but it duz have alot of scope for future mods.
would have been better to spend the 4k rebuilding the motor and getting the head ported first and put some cams in it then get the fancy headers etc.
the fancy headers and decent exhaust are prob the only things gaining the hp anyhoo.
a set of 52mm itbs will flow more than enough air for all but a fullhouse race engine, the british touring car accords of the mid nineties ran 55mm itbs of the sliding throttle plate variety ( for the motorcyclists here , think flat slide carbs) and made around 320whp and still ran standard comp ratio or close to it.

[GhostAccord]

The owner of the F20B is also having Bisi build him an H22. So therefore this dyno is just basically for shytes and giggles. No doubt as mentioned previously a type of sales publicity stunt of sorts.

Should also check out the thread on one of the other sites. The thread with one of Bisi's headers that cracked, no wait, wasn't even welded properly to begine with. It plainly separated at the joint as if there was no filler or back purging gas used. This header was sent back to be fixed and broke again no less. Not Bisi's fault entirely but he should probably keep his $10/hr TIG welder off the booze from now on. Not the first time I've seen shotty welds on these things and been bashed for hating there quality control. But some nut swingers would say "So what, it's 1 in 10"... 1 in 100 is way too many when your paying $800-$1300 per.

[Tomh]

I only paid $1000 for the car, I won't be slapping a header on it that cost more than the car did.

[Phate]

For 4 grand You (If you were halfway knowlegable/resourcefull) could build a low $ shitbox (Complete car) that makes about 200 WHP more than that, and goes tens... It would look like shit, but after the idot that spent that money got WALKED on by you in this 4 thousand dollar pile of shit, as he was reminding you drive a piece of shit, you could remind him Your piece of shit is 2-3 seconds quicker and traps 20 miles an hour faster than his does

Fucking this. "hmmm do I want baller parts (with or without shitty quality control) that will make decent power but limit the extent of my build budget to boltons? Or do I actually want to go fast?"

Fuck, if I wanted to make a shit ton of power for 4 grand (price of itbs and the header), I'd probably build/boost an F and get to start replacing transmissions like you. Or if I was only shooting for 300whp, I'd just put boltons on a 93 accord I bought off CL for under $2k, pull some parts to drop the weight, put a bottle in the trunk, and walk it out on the guy who blew his budget on a header. That way even if you don't win, its not like you really tried to hard. Or for more lulz, replace "stripped accord" with "stripped 4th gen maxima".

It doesn't matter how baller your parts are. If you are trying to be fast, and somebody beats you with a rusty shitbox, you don't look too cool anymore. The guy with the rusty fast shitbox on the other hand is likely to have a good time.

[1993sir]

if that $800 to 1300 is in US dollars, that equates to 1 to 1.5k in NZ.
and i would expect for tat cash to get a set of headers with a name like JUN,HKS, or Mugen who are the gods of Jdm tuning.
i can get a set of genuine jun headers for 1100 brand new.
if the bisi headers have had any failures what so ever, you would expect to have a new set sent out free of charge and then only accept them on inspection.
but yeah, it duz seem that the dyno plot etc is just an advertisement.
i want to see flow charts and pressure drop readings for the 2 intakes and back pressure readings for the 2 exhausts myself.
you would probably find that the flow rate and pressure drops for the inlets would be fairly close together as afr as the amount of air that the H22A can ingest go but the big itbs will be better in peak flow.
what they need to be doing is advertising a header at a better price and aimed at guys and girls like us, ie not having mega bucks to spend on a set of headers.
a nice set of equal length 4/1 headers( mild steel would suit most of us) with a 2.5 inch collector and a bored out t/b an inlet pipe and filter for less than say 800 bucks.

[GhostAccord]

These are a tuned 4-1 equal length header that's why they have all the stepped radii in them. Instead of being long and straight, they are as long but curved to conserve space below the motor. It's an old design the old V8 guys use in there tuned length shorties. Oh yeah, IIRC they do have mild steel headers available for $750. That's under $800 isn't it...lol ;)

I can get a local fab shop with, pipe design software, to make the same headers for half the price. Also using a CWB certified journeymen welder. I'll have to admit that it's nice having friends in the right places ;)

[Velocifero]

http://www.hondasociety.com/board/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

[1993sir]

did not know they made a mild steel header but still, $750 is pretty expensive and i would want a t/b in that as well. i did know that these were a tuned length set but they are still to expensive and they dont need to be so bloody fancy to do the same job.
i remember helping a guy do a set of headers years ago.
welded four pipes to a manifold plate, put a paint line down each pipe and then run it on the dyno . where the paint stopped burning off was the length at which they were cut and that was the length used.
measured the pipe and made all the primaries that length.
worked a treat and it made better hp than an off the shelf item.
we ended up doing the same thing for the piping from the collector out and ran it as a side pipe.
the only problem is that method is only any good for the motor they were made on. different cams or anything to change the tune and it screws that idea up.
oh, and that JUn header i said about, was 1100 NZD which is about 800 USD.
what one would you rather have?

[F22 Boosted]

If Bisi tuned this, then why are the maps, especially the torque map, so wavy? I have seen maps where lines seem choppy, but these are some BIG dips...

[F22 Boosted]

Still no one? I also tried to find the "forum" that customer review is on, but the only search results are other posts that Bisi has made saying the same thing. I didn't even find a thread saying "can't view unless you're a member" or anything like that.

[1993sir]

to me, that sort of makes it look like the guy is running out of business, and is trying to blow smoke up everyones ring piece to make him self look good.
his work is obviously either sub par or he is way to expensive.
as for his itb set up. i made an itb manifold to suit toyota 46 mm black top 4age 20 valve itbs for my CA3 b20a motor.
including the cost of the itbs,it cost me bout NZD$600 to make and about 6 hours of my time.
working at $60 per hour thats $960 NZD or bout 750-800 usd including injectors